Thank you, CJ for blocking that Gawd-Awful pile of MOR listening "pop music" from being elevated to the heights of EON sainthood. There were better "cross-over" albums with more heft coming up than MJ and his pet monkey. I'd say - though not a big fan of Prince - that 1999 did more to bridge the gap than MJ. Beginning with the fact Prince played his own instruments (who needs Eddie Van Halen) wrote his own music and did not diddle little boys.
Mmmmmm, i think Thriller was overrated. If you want to throw accolades towards a Jackson, consider sister Janet's Control. Both crossover and feminist appeal. Defined a sound that made Lady GaGa possible
Gentlemen - (can I still use that term?) - kudos to your various write-ups on the MJ album. Even when I don't agree with you, which lately seems often, I always enjoy your wittiness. Contrary to your declaration of only two types of people regarding his music though, I ain't buyin' it - there are people who don't care for MJ's music, including me, and that was before I knew he was a pedophile - and I'm not lying. I think its his vocals that turn me off.
There is no doubt he was musically gifted and it is easy to see why his music appealed to the masses the way it did. My wife is moon-walking to the album as I have it on while writing my rebuttal - so I guess there is a redeeming quality. But except with an ironically amusing likability to the song "Beat It" I just never cared for MJ. I know its just my musical tastes, because I'm probably one of the few guys on earth that doesn't care for Frank Sinatra music either. In fact, I despise the music of Frank, Tony, and any other crooner, but I digress. Call me weird - I understand it.
I would not vote for Thriller onto Newberry either solely do to my dislike of MJ music and nothing else. As horrible as his infatuation with children was, and the fact that toward the end of his life he was just a strange human being, that fact should not keep the music out of Newberry or Webber Way. There have been a lot of musicians over the decades with some very odd proclivities, many I bet we just don't know about - yet we love their music anyway. One has to wonder what the final verdict would have been on Jim Morrison had he lived past the self-imposed life deadline of drugged rockers. David Bowie seemed to have been a strange one too, but there weren't too many better road-loading albums in the 70's than Ziggy.
The reason I am "admitting" this is that I started to agree with CJ whole-heatedly, then stopped myself. I don't want Thriller on Newberry but not for the reasons CJ stated. Incredibly, I can't believe I am saying that as I am a 65 y/o die hard conservative male - a dinosaur as such. I was also unaware the vote had to be unanimous for entry.
Looking forward to your comments for the Highwaymen as I am a huge Kristofferson fan.
I can appreciate your statement, as my mother would agree with you. She thinks I'm some sort of abomination because of it. Please don't contact her to discuss it because I think she is thinking about writing me out of the will over my stance. For the record, I love my mama and apple pie too.
There are two musical acts that were so inescapably forced on me so often during this period that I formed an aversion that hardened into scar tissue that lingers to this day: the Grateful Dead and Michael Jackson.
I think I have 1 Dead album on vinyl (zero "booters"!) and no Michael Jackson. None. Never owned one, and never once did the thought ever cross my mind to purposely play music by either one. When others played them, I was left to pray it would only be one side, otherwise I had to decide how long I wanted to stay in such an inhospitable space. To me, it's a Dutch Oven for people who love hearing themselves sing along.
It's not a comment on either's musicianship -- both inarguably superb -- it's just that I can't stand hearing any of those songs one...more...effing...time...
There are no exceptions. No nostalgia, no soft spot, no guilty pleasure, no fond memories, none of that for the Dead or MJ. If you're playing Thriller, I'm looking at my watch, the door, then my watch again. If you sing along, I leave on the spot, and must listen to Cake "Fashion Nugget" on the ride home to cleanse my musical palette (anything by Foo Fighters also works in a pinch).
I don't even need to visit pedoland -- er, Neverland -- like CJ to express my revulsion for this body of work. If you love it, good on'ya. Mitch, trust me and Alan, we speak for a third group of people in the world who get absolutely no Thrills from Thriller. I wouldn't even allow it on Boylston Street.
The Foo Fighters over the Grateful Dead?!?!?!?! Bob Weir butchering the slide guitar on Little Red Rooster is better than 90% of the Foo Fighters catalog!
Prince is obviously a prodigy as a musician and performer, but I think the Bob Weir songbook stands quite tall. You're talking about someone who wrote: Truckin', Playing in the Band, Cassidy, One More Saturday Night, Estimated Prophet, Feel Like a Stranger, Jack Straw, Sugar Magnolia, The Music Never Stopped, Throwin' Stones, Hell in a Bucket AND Easy Answers.
Just Frank outlawed on Webber Way, not the Dead. Webber Way is littered with Dead music.
By the way guys, I wrote a piece today for a couple papers I write for and my blog on the Stones taking Brown Sugar out of their set. You can find it at
Thriller was the 2nd MJ album I bought — the first was Dangerous. And since the latter, I've been a die-hard MJ fan. I was too scared to watch the music video at night (I was just 6-7 years old), but I played the reels of the tape.
I don't want to write anything to dilute your amazing review of the album. But... could I request you to review Your Wilderness by Pineapple Thief? The album only came out in 2016, but I think it's a musical masterpiece. Please?
My first plan was to send a postcard from Pedantry Place--I could've sworn "The Girl Is Mine" was on one McCartney's albums. Good thing I cued the album up before I did...
Lest I get my other foot in my mouth too:
I respect CJ's stance. It's 100% valid, and one shared by millions. But millions of others have separated the performer from the person offstage. Not just for MJ, but other artist as well.
I loved this record as a kid. Knowing what we know now doesn't change that. It didn't suddenly become a bad record because we learned 20ish later that the dude was a monster. Millions of sales don't get erased. It'd be intellectually dishonest for me to run around saying I didn't/don't/never liked it. I don't think I'd play it much today, but that's down to my tastes changing, not because of his (abhorrent) actions.
Saying you like a record but not the artist is a nuanced take, and not an easy one to have online. It's not one you can squish into 280 characters--in fact, as I type this, I'm not even sure I'm making my point clearly.
If I'm honest, I think a lot of people feel this way. The easiest way to find out would've been to have him release new material and see what the market response was. Since he'll never put out a record again we'll never know, but it's an interesting thought exercise.
This was a difficult response to write and I struggled with it mightily. I even shared it with Mitch and Ken before I posted it because I wanted their feedback on whether I was stomping all over the rules here. For a blog that's supposed to be serious about music, but unserious about pretty much everything else, this was a pretty heavy week. I can tell from the tenor of the comments that many people had the same internal battle that I did. Do I turn off an MJ song if it happens to come on the radio? Of course not. But, do I put MJ songs on my various playlists by choice? Not so much anymore. Nuanced indeed
Thank you, CJ for blocking that Gawd-Awful pile of MOR listening "pop music" from being elevated to the heights of EON sainthood. There were better "cross-over" albums with more heft coming up than MJ and his pet monkey. I'd say - though not a big fan of Prince - that 1999 did more to bridge the gap than MJ. Beginning with the fact Prince played his own instruments (who needs Eddie Van Halen) wrote his own music and did not diddle little boys.
I believe the MJ vs. Prince battle was settled on the ping pong courts years ago.
All respect to Prince, an incredible musician, but his cultural influence didn't reach the heights of MJ and Thriller.
Thankfully we were all able to enjoy the music of "Thriller" for several years before it became clear was a monster he was.
Mmmmmm, i think Thriller was overrated. If you want to throw accolades towards a Jackson, consider sister Janet's Control. Both crossover and feminist appeal. Defined a sound that made Lady GaGa possible
"Control" was awesome. We weren't ready for it.
Gentlemen - (can I still use that term?) - kudos to your various write-ups on the MJ album. Even when I don't agree with you, which lately seems often, I always enjoy your wittiness. Contrary to your declaration of only two types of people regarding his music though, I ain't buyin' it - there are people who don't care for MJ's music, including me, and that was before I knew he was a pedophile - and I'm not lying. I think its his vocals that turn me off.
There is no doubt he was musically gifted and it is easy to see why his music appealed to the masses the way it did. My wife is moon-walking to the album as I have it on while writing my rebuttal - so I guess there is a redeeming quality. But except with an ironically amusing likability to the song "Beat It" I just never cared for MJ. I know its just my musical tastes, because I'm probably one of the few guys on earth that doesn't care for Frank Sinatra music either. In fact, I despise the music of Frank, Tony, and any other crooner, but I digress. Call me weird - I understand it.
I would not vote for Thriller onto Newberry either solely do to my dislike of MJ music and nothing else. As horrible as his infatuation with children was, and the fact that toward the end of his life he was just a strange human being, that fact should not keep the music out of Newberry or Webber Way. There have been a lot of musicians over the decades with some very odd proclivities, many I bet we just don't know about - yet we love their music anyway. One has to wonder what the final verdict would have been on Jim Morrison had he lived past the self-imposed life deadline of drugged rockers. David Bowie seemed to have been a strange one too, but there weren't too many better road-loading albums in the 70's than Ziggy.
The reason I am "admitting" this is that I started to agree with CJ whole-heatedly, then stopped myself. I don't want Thriller on Newberry but not for the reasons CJ stated. Incredibly, I can't believe I am saying that as I am a 65 y/o die hard conservative male - a dinosaur as such. I was also unaware the vote had to be unanimous for entry.
Looking forward to your comments for the Highwaymen as I am a huge Kristofferson fan.
I would respond to your MJ comments but I'm literally paralyzed by your Frank Sinatra take. You against Mom and apple pie, too?
I can appreciate your statement, as my mother would agree with you. She thinks I'm some sort of abomination because of it. Please don't contact her to discuss it because I think she is thinking about writing me out of the will over my stance. For the record, I love my mama and apple pie too.
There are two musical acts that were so inescapably forced on me so often during this period that I formed an aversion that hardened into scar tissue that lingers to this day: the Grateful Dead and Michael Jackson.
I think I have 1 Dead album on vinyl (zero "booters"!) and no Michael Jackson. None. Never owned one, and never once did the thought ever cross my mind to purposely play music by either one. When others played them, I was left to pray it would only be one side, otherwise I had to decide how long I wanted to stay in such an inhospitable space. To me, it's a Dutch Oven for people who love hearing themselves sing along.
It's not a comment on either's musicianship -- both inarguably superb -- it's just that I can't stand hearing any of those songs one...more...effing...time...
There are no exceptions. No nostalgia, no soft spot, no guilty pleasure, no fond memories, none of that for the Dead or MJ. If you're playing Thriller, I'm looking at my watch, the door, then my watch again. If you sing along, I leave on the spot, and must listen to Cake "Fashion Nugget" on the ride home to cleanse my musical palette (anything by Foo Fighters also works in a pinch).
I don't even need to visit pedoland -- er, Neverland -- like CJ to express my revulsion for this body of work. If you love it, good on'ya. Mitch, trust me and Alan, we speak for a third group of people in the world who get absolutely no Thrills from Thriller. I wouldn't even allow it on Boylston Street.
The Foo Fighters over the Grateful Dead?!?!?!?! Bob Weir butchering the slide guitar on Little Red Rooster is better than 90% of the Foo Fighters catalog!
prince over bob weir too
Prince is obviously a prodigy as a musician and performer, but I think the Bob Weir songbook stands quite tall. You're talking about someone who wrote: Truckin', Playing in the Band, Cassidy, One More Saturday Night, Estimated Prophet, Feel Like a Stranger, Jack Straw, Sugar Magnolia, The Music Never Stopped, Throwin' Stones, Hell in a Bucket AND Easy Answers.
It ain't easy bein' cheesy! Weir Everywhere!
Rough day at EONS. We love you all but shitting on Frank and The Grateful Dead on the same day might be more than I can handle.
Just Frank outlawed on Webber Way, not the Dead. Webber Way is littered with Dead music.
By the way guys, I wrote a piece today for a couple papers I write for and my blog on the Stones taking Brown Sugar out of their set. You can find it at
https://webbersworldblog.wordpress.com/2021/10/27/im-no-schoolboy-but-i-know-what-i-like/?fbclid=IwAR1BXgH-bI07pRjvfKOUtGP3bZJegf_JpYENZ-yDkgVgxBrsFJYHjjqFX_4
or at Substack under my name.
Thriller was the 2nd MJ album I bought — the first was Dangerous. And since the latter, I've been a die-hard MJ fan. I was too scared to watch the music video at night (I was just 6-7 years old), but I played the reels of the tape.
I don't want to write anything to dilute your amazing review of the album. But... could I request you to review Your Wilderness by Pineapple Thief? The album only came out in 2016, but I think it's a musical masterpiece. Please?
My first plan was to send a postcard from Pedantry Place--I could've sworn "The Girl Is Mine" was on one McCartney's albums. Good thing I cued the album up before I did...
Lest I get my other foot in my mouth too:
I respect CJ's stance. It's 100% valid, and one shared by millions. But millions of others have separated the performer from the person offstage. Not just for MJ, but other artist as well.
I loved this record as a kid. Knowing what we know now doesn't change that. It didn't suddenly become a bad record because we learned 20ish later that the dude was a monster. Millions of sales don't get erased. It'd be intellectually dishonest for me to run around saying I didn't/don't/never liked it. I don't think I'd play it much today, but that's down to my tastes changing, not because of his (abhorrent) actions.
Saying you like a record but not the artist is a nuanced take, and not an easy one to have online. It's not one you can squish into 280 characters--in fact, as I type this, I'm not even sure I'm making my point clearly.
If I'm honest, I think a lot of people feel this way. The easiest way to find out would've been to have him release new material and see what the market response was. Since he'll never put out a record again we'll never know, but it's an interesting thought exercise.
Great points Kevin.
This was a difficult response to write and I struggled with it mightily. I even shared it with Mitch and Ken before I posted it because I wanted their feedback on whether I was stomping all over the rules here. For a blog that's supposed to be serious about music, but unserious about pretty much everything else, this was a pretty heavy week. I can tell from the tenor of the comments that many people had the same internal battle that I did. Do I turn off an MJ song if it happens to come on the radio? Of course not. But, do I put MJ songs on my various playlists by choice? Not so much anymore. Nuanced indeed